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Thanks 4LeafClover and Renee.
4LeafClover, keep working at your awareness of needing validation. Increasing awareness will help you to be more observant and objective, and less caught in that need. Stay connected.
Renee, you tell the truth. I guess I know it too. Just tough to let go of the fantasy of connecting with someone. Though it is reality with most people who don’t have narcissistic tendencies.
Yes, it has been peaceful. He has pretty much ignored me, and left open his computer on books and articles on “choosing whether to leave or stay” and “quick divorce”. Maybe he is just self absorbed and not expressly wanting me to see these things. I’m kinda over it in any case.
I left something important out to my comment above.
I mentioned at the end that I had asked for closer and deeper communication and now I realize it isn’t something I am going to get.
So, I’m not sure what is coming down the pipeline.
Yesterday my husband “asked Alexa” why the notification was. Response was “Dealing with the Narcissist was delivered”.
He said, “do you think I am a narcissist?” I mumbled, not ready to answer. He says, “I don’t even know what a narcissist is.” Somehow I avoided that conversation.
Today, he says, “I still can’t believe you think I’m a narcissist.” I said, “still?” He says “yes, we had a conversation yesterday.”
I said, “you said you didn’t know what it was.” And he said he was looking it up now. So I suggested he look up covert narcissist.
Oh boy… he was off before the Alexa announcement. The thing I’ve come to realize is that he can be accommodating and thoughtful for a while – he brought me roses on Friday to thank me for looking after me when he had his knee replacement surgery almost 4 weeks ago. He said he knows he can be a bear. My thought was that he really wasn’t so bad when he was recovering. – but I could tell he was off shortly after the roses. It may be strange but when he starts to leave the toilet seat up, or nitpicks my words, I know something is up.
And then he discovered I think he is a narcissist.
He isn’t violent. I’ve been scared of him twice And told him so, at the time.
I don’t know what the next few days will hold, but in the past I’ve been met with silence, passive-aggressiveness, and an unwillingness to do anything to contribute in the house. Hope that is what it is this time.
Wende Kay, I feel happy for you. What choices do you make now that helps you create happiness? I’m 52 and looking forward to some different choices.
Hi Coyote!
I am Canadian, but I currently live in San Diego. My extended family is all in Vancouver. I plan to move back there after my son graduates high school in ’21, and once I can get a new job up there. I worry how my currently planned timing will affect my son. My daughter is going to University up there right now.My husband knows I want to move back to Canada in a couple years, but when we settled in San Diego he declared he was living here forever. He has since agreed in words that we will head back up but I don’t trust the words.
Where are you in Canada? It is nice to connect with you here. Stay connected!
I look back and realize I created some of the crazy in my relationship! When I saw that the kids were frightened of their dad when he yelled at them, I resolved to find reasons that worked for him, as to why he needed to change. I told him the kids would listen to him if he took a breath before speaking, and other adults would see him as a great dad. But I didn’t think of any reasons he accepted that had him speaking more nicely to me. I backed out of fun times so that daddy could be seen as the fun one. Except I don’t have those fun times as memories with my kids.
I now back off of my requests for my own needs, and he thinks our relationship has gotten better…only it really is that I’ve given up asking for a while. He sees so black and white that when I say that I still need x, y and z, suddenly his world is upside down and I’m the cause.
I’m helping him get through a major surgery – making dinners, massaging a leg, getting ice packs – and after the first day all I could think about was that he would come to expect this, and act so put out when I expected him to start pitching in again (not that it is ever even, but I do make requests).
Coming up, he will be traveling for fun and work the first two+ weeks of December. I said that in this case we both need to make sure that gifts are purchased and mailed before his trips. Of course I do 95% of it each year anyways, so I expect him to find excuses not to do anything, or to get upset about something else so that I stop asking. And then if I buy and wrap gifts on my own, he gets upset that he was not informed.
And already I’m thinking ahead to something that hasn’t happened, and trying to prepare myself, and to brace myself for his inaction or his grumpy responses. Much of my head space is still thinking ahead of what I should or shouldn’t do or say. Ah! it really is crazy-making!
Renee,
It really IS crazy-making! I feel so thankful that I have been able to separate how I respond/think within my marriage, and how I am with everyone else in my life. I focus on compartmentalizing. There was a time that I was scared that I would just create this chaos again if I was ever in a new relationship, so I’m now trying to “be me” as much as possible with others. It feels so free outside the door of my home…and I try hard not to let it affect my relationship with my kids.
Thanks for starting this whole community, and for being someone we can identify with. SO important in this strange world of covert narcissism!
Leigh
Wow, Renee,
That is how my husband is. I don’t know how many times in our marriage I have said, “let me finish before you start talking please.” or “you just walked out of the room mid sentence – that is rude.” He has taken out his phone and I’ve asked him to repeat back what I just said, and he can’t.
He has actually said to me that he doesn’t really want to hear what I have to say.
In one of our counselling sessions we had a conversation with the therapist about monologues vs dialogues. The therapist was asking me if I could be flexible and allow my husband to monologue sometimes…she didn’t really understand that this was his only preference, and defeated the closer communication and connection that I was asking for.
I carefully word my statements or texts so that there are no words that he can come back and essentially tell me that I am wrong…in one way or another. Inevitably there will be something in what I say or text that he can call me on as being wrong. I really don’t try to have conversations with him anymore, but then there are good days and I forget…until he does it again.
Thankfully I now have some wonderful friends who I have been able to confide in. And this forum will be a lifesaver for me as I negotiate these next couple years before my youngest graduates, and I increase my earnings.
HRC915
In all my reading and research (and counselling) regarding narcissism, your comments are the first time I feel like someone else really does understand. Thank you.And I’m also sorry you are now going through this stage in your marriage / divorce. The “saving costs” sounds so familiar to me. Because of these perceived “nice guys” you and I are married to, I would worry he would woo his way into gaining support from the shared lawyer…and perhaps use some specific examples (out of context of course) to paint a slightly unsteady picture of you.
My husband and I went to counselling twice. Both times the counsellor seemed to like him and they seemed to connect. I wanted things to progress so I let him speak about him wanting to help me be more happy, while also talking about my “nagging”, thinking he was putting in an effort. Turns out he was pretty much putting on a show. He was memorizing words to use, but didn’t understand the underlying feelings or perceptions behind the communication.
In one of my more heated discussions with my husband, we spoke of divorce, and he agreed with me that he would probably be very vindictive if that were to happen.
Have you thought about downloading a recording app for your phone in case you need it? It probably wouldn’t go well if you start looking at your phone in the middle of a conversation, but perhaps you could start recording, then delete what you don’t need?
Eggshells….I know those too well. I told him about this once, and he became a martyr about it.
Speaking to you like a child…yep. It feels demeaning, and so much like there isn’t a partnership at all.I wish you much luck. Take some deep breaths. Do activities that make you happy, make you smile. And keep talking it through with those of us who can understand.
Thank you for this forum, and for the comments in this group so far. I have been married for 20 years to a CV, but didn’t really know what was going on (kinda thought I was crazy, as he is liked by people in social settings – I also like him in social settings when we are not speaking directly to each other:)), and my second child of two is almost two years from graduating high school. I have been focused on the balance between not arguing with my spouse, and ensuring my children understand what is right and wrong in a healthy relationship.
In last few years I have learned the difference between narcissism and covert narcissism without express abusive words (saying “idiot” vs smirking, or responding negatively to a request vs a sigh or silence). It has been a tough but enlightening journey.
I am planning my journey to separation within a couple years, with more education to re-increase my pay level (I made much more before we moved and I didn’t work for almost a decade).
Thank you Renee about your point that I can approach a tough conversation with “now I know this may make you mad”. That makes SO much sense!